IN THIS EPISODE:
Ever wondered how to break free from the labels of "mother" and "wife," and rediscover your own identity? I'm joined by Pam, who courageously transitioned from food and fitness into coaching women over 40 on their inner journeys. Our conversation taps into the power of self-perception and self-love, as we navigate the nuanced layers of personal growth and satisfaction. Pam shares her evolution in client relationships, aiming for impactful transformations that go beyond diet supervision.

Striking a balance between generating leads and safeguarding the value of your coaching business can be a tightrope walk. That's where I come in, sharing my expertise on automating and refining your health coaching venture without losing the essential personal touch. We discuss strategies for content creation, optimizing work hours, and smart pricing, all tailored to keep you connected with your clients while driving your business forward efficiently. Listeners get a behind-the-scenes look at how to streamline processes, ensuring peak performance in both productivity and client support.

Finally, we dissect the mechanics of client acquisition and engagement. From mastering short yet effective discovery calls to setting up an automated marketing system that works tirelessly for you, the episode is brimming with actionable advice. The goal is clear: equip yourself with the tactics necessary to prepare for your next client meeting and support your ambitions, all while balancing the demands of personal and professional life. Tune in for a session packed with insights that promise to elevate your coaching practice to new heights.

• Links: https://www.nextleveluniverse.com

• IG tag: @alazaros88

Bio: 

At age 2, my father passed away in a car accident.

At age 26, after getting into a nearly fatal car accident myself, I questioned everything I was doing in life.

I questioned who I was and the choices I was making. I was at an all-time low.

Filled with regret, I searched for answers and found two of the brightest lights I had ever seen.

The first bright light was a book by Bronnie Ware entitled, “The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying,” and the second was a Ted Talk by Tony Robbins.

Both of these resources helped me find my way and guided me to make the choice of going ALL IN on self-improvement to design a life of meaning and purpose.

On this self-improvement journey, I have learned I believe in a heart-driven but NO BS approach to inspiring, motivating, and educating others on what it REALLY takes to get to the Next Level.

Today, I am proud to say it is my mission to help others design fulfilling lives, maximize their own unique potential, and build aligned businesses they love on their own terms.

I have a powerful combination of technical expertise and business acumen specializing in Peak Performance, Productivity, Organizational Design, and Individual, Team, and Business Optimization.

I lead a global team at NLU, have given hundreds of trainings all over the world, and have happily completed thousands of one-on-one coaching calls with clients. It would be my honor to help you get to the Next Level of your life, love, health, and wealth.

0:00 Business Transformation Coaching

12:14 Developing a Health Coaching Business

20:00 Business Name and Mindset Coaching

32:11 Streamlining Business Processes for Busy Moms"

34:55 Maximizing Discovery Call Opportunities

48:52 Automated Marketing System Setup Instructions

57:04 Client Meeting Preparation and Support

TRANSCRIPT

Caroline Balinska: 0:00

In each episode, we'll unravel the strategies, tactics and insider secrets to elevate your marketing to new heights From lead generation to automation to positioning yourself as the expert to client retention. I've spent years in the trenches, learning the ins and outs of the marketing world. Now I'm here to share my knowledge and invite other experts to help you create a thriving and fulfilling business that you're passionate about. This is the More Clients, less Hustle podcast. We'll be turning your business dreams into reality. Are you ready? I'm Caroline Balinska, your host. Let's dive in and transform your business together.

Pam Sherman: 0:40

Fantastic. Okay. So, pam, this is exciting. We've known each other for a while.

Pam Sherman: 0:45

We met on my podcast on life on purpose over 40 and you're an amazing guest. You've been amazing with all of the advice you gave us about um. You were talking about fitness and about women and health and, um, everything to do with women over the age of 40. But now we spoke a couple of weeks ago because I spoke to you about helping you out with your business and you said to me two weeks ago that you're actually looking at changing your whole business structure. So we wanted to get on and do a couple of coaching calls together. So I'm recording it because you've decided to change your business.

Pam Sherman: 1:19

So we had a quick talk the other day about it. I gave you some ideas to go away with and think about. So in today's session, I want you to sort of tell me what you thought about since our last talk, what you've sort of expanded on, what you've thought about, what ideas you've come up with, and then we'll take it from there. I've got a whole list of things that I want to talk to you about. I've got a whole lot of ideas that I want to bring forward, but I do need to know more from you first, of what you've sort of thought about in the last week.

Pam Sherman: 1:48

Well it's. I've so appreciated your input and your questions, because I feel like I have I have this much and I need to tailor, I need to bring it in because you really need to have your ideal client.

Pam Sherman: 2:01

And who do I want to serve? And I'm not I'd say I'm pivoting. I'm not doing a whole different, but I'm pivoting from solely food and fitness to really diving in and helping women especially. You know I've worked with women for 27 years and there's so much self-hatred and self-dislike that I want to get on a deeper level with them. Yes, I can tell you how to exercise. Yes, I can tell you healthy recipes, but that doesn't matter unless you're doing the work on the inside. So I really want to make it a more introspective coaching plan, as opposed to here's what to eat and here's how to work out and we're done, because that doesn't work unless you're happy on the inside.

Pam Sherman: 2:43

Okay, so you were dealing with women before, but you were also seeing men before. When she, you were doing both men and women.

Pam Sherman: 2:51

I have a like two to three guys that I have. I have one right now and this is with my isogenics, my strictly, my nutrition, which is good for men and women. 99.9% are women that I work with, which is good for men and women 99.9% are women that I work with Yep.

Pam Sherman: 3:11

Okay, so I think what you're. When we spoke the other week and you decided that you want to make changes, I feel like you're you've already been doing what you're talking about. Like when you came on my podcast, it was pretty much it was all about the mindset. You know that I work with a client, beck, who's also she. Well, she targets mums which are more ages 25 to 45, so a younger demographic from you, but still women and mums is like you know, most women are mums, so it sort of falls into the same category and Beck talks a lot about that as well. That you know mindset is so important and at the end of the day, it's exactly what you said. It doesn't matter how much you try to tell someone about nutrition, but if their mindset's not right. So what I think I need to understand at the moment is what is the difference between what you want to move towards and, yeah, how does it make a difference from what you were doing before?

Pam Sherman: 4:00

Well, what I've been doing is strictly using the Isagenix 30-day system to help my clients that want to lose weight feel great all the things I want to and have private coaching. Clients who want more, who want to dive into. I'm sick of losing it every weekend. I'm sick of drinking every night. I can't get out of my own way With my Isagenix clients. I have a weekly call for all my clients. I want more one-on-one. I want to be intentional with my clients that really do want to change. I don't want to babysit them with their food. I want to help them shift their mindset, learn to love themselves. In fact, a year ago I was just talking about this with a friend. I started on this road about a year ago when I created my course Love Yourself to Health. Okay, and I can share this with you, Carolyn. It's a very short, it's a seven audio files and each lesson is, you know, diving into who you are, Because many women, when I have my first intro call, Carolyn, tell me about you.

Pam Sherman: 4:58

A hundred percent of women say I'm a mother and I'm a wife and I'm like no, no, no. Who are you? Who is the? Who is the, Carolyn? What do you like to do what makes you happy, what brings you joy. Yes, yes, it's great, You're a mom and a wife. However, I want to get to the inside. So I created that because, literally sick of so many women saying they don't like themselves, I'm like stop it, You're you love everybody in your life, gotta love you first it's not selfish, which so many women think it is.

Pam Sherman: 5:34

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. So you've got the there's a seven day course. Seven part course. It's a seven part. Some people, somebody could do it one day if they wanted to, but I really want them to take time because there's homework at the end of every lesson and it's not just one day, it's not just like do it in one day and then forget about it.

Pam Sherman: 5:45

It's something that you have to keep doing. Okay, so you do the group coaching. That's about eating correctly and fitness, and then you want to do more one-on-one. I know before you were doing like you offered a few different packages. You offered one-on-one and you had group stuff. So now you want to go more into the one-on-one stuff. You've got these seven parts. Love yourself to hell. Um, does that mean that what? Tell me what a package looks like. So tell me what you have. You got an idea of what that package so, compared to now. At the moment you do a group. Is it like a 12-week program at the moment?

Pam Sherman: 6:24

the group was a private facebook group where it was really all food, fitness mindset and that it kind of petered out. I wasn't getting a lot of people excited about it. So as of the 15th that's no more and I wouldn't mind doing another group, but with a different intention. And then I have not done a one-on-one client probably in five or six months, just because I haven't had any interest. So I really want to think about a three-month or a six-month private coaching plan, because it takes more than a month to change habits, to change behaviors, and I really want to have like a weekly call, like in homework, because you got to change the habits and that takes doing work. It can't be one call and I'm changed. But diving in deeper with women.

Pam Sherman: 7:11

Okay. So there's a few different trains of thoughts when it comes to this. So I think everything you're saying. First of all, I've put together like I've got my plan that I work sort of as a template, that how I help my clients, and you're definitely going to fit within that. But it's a template, so we need to then pick and choose and make it work for you. There are a few trains of thoughts when it comes to programs, so you just need to think it through. And that also comes down to how you're going to actually promote it.

Pam Sherman: 7:44

So some people think that they offer a longer time program and it means that there's more value in it. Like, oh, I'm going to offer you a 12-month program and because then they can charge more, which makes it look like there's more value in it. But then people are not looking for long timeframes, they're looking for fast results. Now, other hand, when it comes to what you're doing just like my client beck exactly the same situation. You can't give them like a fast transformation in seven days, like that's just not possible with what you're doing. So you've got that situation where you've got to think of the balance of the. They want results fast, but then you also need to keep them. Like you said, they've got to keep coming back. So then there's a few ways to look at it. Maybe there's a way that you offer like a six-week intensive program and then they go on to a 12-month program that's like a less intensive program. So there's no right or wrong and it really comes down to how you promote it and what feels good for you and where you think you're going to get results. But I just want you to think about this, because this is where a lot of people sort of get stuck in this. It's a three-month program, six-month program, one-year program, and they don't think it through in the full picture. So having something where you say like a rapid transformation within six weeks plus ongoing for the next 12 months, means that you know there's going to be this intensive over the first X amount of weeks. And then it sort of gives people like, oh, I'm going to get results fast in that case, but that's not going to be the end of your results after that six weeks. So you're not lying to them, but you're also not selling them something that's, you know, not going to happen for them, but you do want to give them that feeling that there's going to be a big transformation as quick as possible. So I want you to think that through.

Pam Sherman: 9:36

I was talking to a woman recently who she's a fitness coach and she's quite small, she hasn't been around for that many years and she's sort of like on and off with her business. She sort of does some stuff online and then gets off and she works through another company that she gets some work through. So she goes to people's houses and helps them. She worked with a personal trainer who coaches fitness coaches, and I didn't know who this guy was. She mentioned his name and I don't want to get into names because I don't I'm not here to like put anyone down but when she started telling me about him I was just like, oh, I just know that this is like really bad advice. So he told her she paid him a lot of money to work with him and he was saying that, um, you have to offer a 12, a six month or a 12 month program and she'll be charging at least I don't remember what like minimum $5,000 or something. He was like really like up there and when she was telling me I was like straight away in my head thinking this is not going to work. And she said to me but I haven't gotten any results. I've been trying it for three months and nothing's working. And I said, look, it sounds to me like he's got a huge audience and it works for him now. But I bet you that was not how he started out. And she's like yeah, that's exactly. He's like got 600,000 people and it works for him. So we've got to be really careful of how we position ourselves when you're starting off in these areas.

Pam Sherman: 11:01

So what I always say is you can always put your prices up, and the way I see it is is that by keeping your prices low to begin with and just getting the people in and then just raising your prices as you go, and then it gives people that incentive like the faster you get in, the lower your price is going to be. So some people are scared. They think if I charge too little straight up front, I'm going to look like I'm underselling my value. But it's more like, hey, I'm getting people into my program and I'm getting testimonials and I'm building it up. So I want you to really think about it. Today's call is really about you going away with all of this information to put more ideas together. So I want you to think about how long your program is going to be and then what value that is and what that rapid transformation is. So everyone wants a rapid transformation and in your case, you don't want to sell them false promises, but I think that there will be a nice way that you can find some balance between a transformation that happens quite quickly, that they can start seeing results, and then a longer-term program. So I'd like you to think that through.

Pam Sherman: 12:14

I think your seven-part Love Yourself to Health. Were you charging for that? Was that something that you were charging for? How much were you charging for that? $200. Okay, how much were you charging for that? $200. Okay, is it a? Do you do any sessions with them or is that just a recorded?

Pam Sherman: 12:33

It's recorded.

Pam Sherman: 12:35

Okay, that would be a really good, even if it's not the whole thing, even if it's part of it like that could be a really good lead generation for you. Um, and I would.

Pam Sherman: 12:49

yeah, I think that how would I use that as a lead generator? Yeah, so.

Pam Sherman: 12:55

I think that there's different ways to do it. I'm going to show you in a second, like my actual um the, the actual plan that I use. But really, the more different lead generations you can have, the better they're. Having lots of different options, the more you can have. But I always say start off with one at a time. You've already got that one, so using that one to start off with is really good, and that's another thing is and this is where I've been doing this for so many years people get scared like I sell it for 200.

Pam Sherman: 13:24

If I give it away for free, then I've been doing this for so many years. People get scared Like I sell it for 200. If I give it away for free, then I've like lost that value. Well, don't give away all of it if you don't want to Give away parts of it or give it away as a bonus, just as the moment Like at the moment it's free it's not usually free and I'm giving it away, you know, as a complimentary session, and then you can start charging for it again. So don't get scared off with the giving something away that you've already put a lot of value on to it, because it can just be a really good way to generate leads fast.

Pam Sherman: 13:52

Um, when you think about let's just think about the end result for a second you want to do one-on-one coaching. What is your ideal number of hours that you want to be working? Have you actually thought this through? How many hours a week do you want to work? How much money does that mean you'll be making? How much money do you want to make? If it's one-on-one, then you've got to think through how much money you'll make at the end of it.

Pam Sherman: 14:21

I haven't thought through to the money. I think 10 hours a week with if I had 10 clients, that would be amazing, cause I have my other, you know, my Isagenix clients that I work with as well, so that would be incredible.

Pam Sherman: 14:35

Okay, so 10, 10 clients a week, but now you're still going to have to be doing marketing, you're still going to be doing your admin, you're still going to be doing other things around that. So that means if you're doing 10 hours of doing that, then you've got probably another four or five hours a week with all the other stuff. So is that something that you'd find reasonable? So doing that amount of so I'm really into automating as much of the admin and the marketing as possible. So I think getting it down to like four or five hours, getting it down to three hours, is very possible and if you get some help with it, you can get it down to like four or five hours. Getting it down to three hours is very possible and if you get some help with it, you can get it down to one hour a week.

Pam Sherman: 15:08

And a really good strategy and I'll show it to you is creating one, say, podcast a week that takes you an hour to record, getting someone else to take care of the editing. So this is a long-term. I don't know, like right now, how much money you've got to invest in it. So let's not worry about that at the moment, because that can always change. You might need to put in more hours now, but then what your goal will be is that if you can record one episode a week and then that episode turns into all of your weekly content and you might do a live once a week I know you love doing live, so you can jump on and do a live as well once a week.

Pam Sherman: 15:45

I know you love doing live, so you can jump on and do a live as well um, and then that would be like a maximum of your time doing two hours a week of creating content and then turning it into a lot of other content. So, um, yeah, I think you can get your admin time and your marketing time down to less than four a total of 10 hours a week on clients and then four hours a week on your marketing and if that's something that you think is a reasonable amount of time that you can put into it, then I think that's a good goal. But then now let's think about how much you could charge for that. What would you think? Have you done some research of what other people are charging? Did you look at I asked you to have a look at some of your like who you'd class as a competitor. Do you have some ideas around that?

Pam Sherman: 16:28

anywhere from 100 to 500 an hour okay, um, and then what?

Pam Sherman: 16:41

when you look at, that is that sort of as a 12-week program, as a six-month program.

Pam Sherman: 16:47

I've seen anywhere from two months to six months to a year. I saw different, different links yeah, okay.

Pam Sherman: 16:55

So now, based on all of that, what would you feel? Everything I've just said, what would you think is a reasonable amount of time that a course could be to work with someone and to make them feel like they're getting something fast, but also needing the time to maintain everything and learn everything?

Pam Sherman: 17:13

I think 30 to 45 minutes. I don't think you need to go an hour. You can get a lot done in that amount of time, okay and how long?

Pam Sherman: 17:21

over a six-month period, 12-month. What's your ideal amount of time?

Pam Sherman: 17:28

You told me shorter, so I guess we're going six weeks to start.

Pam Sherman: 17:34

No, so I don't mean shorter, and that's the thing I don't mean for your business to go shorter, because I would say that in my business as a business coach, I would say that in other businesses, that in my business as a business coach, I would say that in other businesses, um, I think, when it comes to fitness, I think you can go for longer time periods just because, um, I think fitness is not, uh, it's not something that you just get to an end result that quickly. I think you do need that time. So I'm not saying that it has to be only six weeks, but you could do like a six week and then they move into a Facebook group, for example. It's a private Facebook group, and then they stay in that group and you just start building up people in that group. So you could do it that way where it's like. So you could end up running two Facebook groups, like you said. You might have another one, because was the other one paid? The other group, one that you know was paid, yeah, and it's ending next week, actually a week from today, okay, so then, um, having the people go from because we'll talk about actual lead generation as well, because there's different ways you might do a free group for that.

Pam Sherman: 18:39

But let's say, for instance, um and I don't want you to think that on this call, this is the final answer. This is just to get an idea of what you're going to be doing. So that could actually work really well a six-week intensive. You can call it something like an intensive six weeks, and then it's like it's a one-year program where they stay in that Facebook group for up to one year, for example, and then it's the first six weeks is one-on-one and after that six weeks then they go into that group and they stay in there and then they're paying for you to be talking to them in there. That could be a nice way to do it. When you talk about those people that are finishing up this week in that group, have you got, do you think many of those people can turn into clients, into your new business?

Pam Sherman: 19:29

Maybe one, maybe one or two. Why?

Pam Sherman: 19:34

do you think?

Pam Sherman: 19:34

only one or two, because many of them have been in there for since the beginning, like four years, three to four years and they haven't made any changes. And I have been very present in the group and post so many things, so many great things and I think for many women it has to be the right time. If they haven't taken the action after the thousands of things I've told them, they're not going to want to take action in a different way.

Pam Sherman: 20:00

Okay, no, you know them, so you've been working with them, so you know them, so you've been working with them, so you know, and that's what usually happens in most of like the programs there's only so much you can help people. Yeah, they have to make those changes themselves. And I see it in my business as well. Like I work with clients and then they pay me money and then they don't make any of the changes that I recommend and then they're like oh, why is my business getting any more, making any more money? And it's like well, you haven't actually made any Facebook posts or you haven't done. Yeah, so I get it, I understand. Okay, so then that would be a really nice way to start off with getting those one or two people on board with your new program and offering them like quite a steep discount to get a video testimonial yeah yep, um, do you?

Pam Sherman: 20:51

I'm going to jump around a little bit in your current um business, do you? I've seen you've done a couple of videos with your clients. How, how strict are you about getting testimonials from clients? Because in your case, not everyone wants to be on video. That's also okay, but you could do just audio testimonials for people. Do you try to get them for people on a regular basis? Do you find it easy? What's the situation there?

Pam Sherman: 21:24

It's usually pretty easy because when they have found success, they're excited to talk. And I always say it's going to be like five or six minutes max, because that's all people really want to see. And usually they're like great, sure, I mean, most of the women have struggled for so long that they have success and they're like yes, I will absolutely talk.

Pam Sherman: 21:43

Yeah, fantastic. Okay, so you've got a lot of testimonials in your current business, then, and do you feel like you can transfer, transform them over to your new business? Like, do you? Because it's your name? Yeah, so it's about you and how good you are at what you do, so I feel like you could use them in your business now, okay, so, when it comes to do you have any questions? So far, I don't want to. You can always interrupt me and ask me questions.

Caroline Balinska: 22:17

Not yet.

Pam Sherman: 22:19

No, okay, okay, um, tell me more about what you're thinking now about your new business, like business name, what it looks like. Do you have ideas around that? Yet the name?

Pam Sherman: 22:38

I have been using the chat and it's it's so hard because you know I want to just pick it once and decide there's so many. I know I've not picked anything out yet because I I look, I'm like not yet, not yet, but I have done a lot of searches and we'll continue to search. I just haven't picked it yet.

Pam Sherman: 23:01

Do you want to talk anything through with me? Do you have anything you want to?

Pam Sherman: 23:05

um, you know me, see, I can read, I can read it to you, okay, okay oh no, sorry it's logging me out. I had so many right up I didn't know. You got logged out A lot of things with vitality or harmony, but I know those are very overused words right now, but I know those are very overused words right now.

Pam Sherman: 23:47

Okay, and so you're not liking the idea of it?

Pam Sherman: 24:00

um, no, I do, I just that's. It's overwhelming because I'm like I want to pick the right one, I want to pick the best one. I haven't, so I have not picked. I've done a lot of searching. Okay, like I'm not really in, I'm not a doctor, so I don't want to use the word holistic, but I do like harmony, but I know tons of people have used harmony Soul, but then people are going to think hippy-dippy. I'm a little hippy-dippy, but that's not what I want to convey. So I think it's very hard to narrow it down, because it is about health and I will be, I'm sure, working with women over 50.

Pam Sherman: 24:37

So to be continued. Okay, have I given you? I don't know if we spoke. I don't think I've given you this prompt yet, so I've got a new prompt that I've been using. You're like, yeah, another one. This one's a really, really good one. Actually it's. I'm just reading from my screen at the moment it is one where you get the perspectives of five. I've added some extra people to it, so I've taken this from other places and I've added to it where you get different perspectives from different famous people. Have I shared this?

Pam Sherman: 25:14

one with you yet Okay.

Pam Sherman: 25:16

So this one is a prompt where you say give me candid feedback on my startup. I want you to do this from a different perspective, such as and I've got here Steve Jobs, bob Iger, esther Perel, doris Kerwin Goodwin, oprah Winfrey. I've put in there as well and I've said give me all those different perspectives and tell me what you think about these particular questions. So I'll give you the prompt and you can go away and play with it. But the idea is that so you put the prompt in and then you say now can you please give me a quick confirmation that you introduce yourselves from this perspective? So I've put in there Oprah Winfrey because I think for women businesses, I think it's a really good one about self-promotion and branding and understanding women's needs. And then the other ones are more from the business perspective.

Pam Sherman: 26:15

And then I've got a question here. I actually put it in for your business and I said I want to. I wasn't sure exactly what age you were going for. So I said I want to start a mindset coaching business for women over 40. I have been a fitness coach for 20 years and I found that what and what I found is that before anyone is able to get fit, to lose weight, they need to be in the right mindset. What should you, what do you think my business should look like, what do you think I need to think about? And then it goes through Steve Jobs's perspective Bob Iger, oprah Winfrey and they all give their perspective of what you need to think about. So it's a really interesting way to get some different ideas as well.

Pam Sherman: 27:12

Will you copy and paste that to an email so I can put it in?

Pam Sherman: 27:14

Yes, I can see what it says Thank you, yeah, exactly, and you can also ask. It says Thank you, yeah, exactly, and you can also ask it things. I did it as well for another business. I'm just reading through, because I've got like a tab just for your stuff in here and I'm just having you click through what I've got there. The other thing, and you can change the people's names. So I've just used these people because I like those people personally.

Pam Sherman: 27:36

But if there's particular business people you think of, I think oprah is a really good one for businesses, like because we're dealing with women, um, and maybe you don't want, you don't care about steve jobs's perspective being a um tech expert and, um, maybe there's someone else you can think of that you want to get their perspective. But you can also ask what are some business names? I did it for someone just checking on yours, but I didn't do it for you. But I've done it for another business where I've said what are some business name ideas? So you can ask for business name ideas in there as well. So there's another way for you to get some ideas. Um, I'll send that prompt through to you afterwards as well. Yeah, so I think you need to come up with a name?

Pam Sherman: 28:30

What do you have any ideas at the moment of what you want your business to look like overall? Is there anything before I go and show you sort of the plan of how we sort of map it out and then because then I can sort of like add it into what I'll show you do you have any sort of like? What does what's your ideal? You came up with this idea just a couple of weeks ago. You said to me that it just came to you. What was the reason behind that? What do you want it to look like? Where do you want it to? What do you want it to look at? Look like one year, five years from now? What's the sort of goal of your business?

Pam Sherman: 29:02

well, I want to be known not only for helping people on their physical health journey, but their mindset journey that I could I turn things around for them because they couldn't get out of their own way. Mindset first, with health and fitness right underneath it, but that that's going to be the number one. I haven't even thought about one year, five years. I'm still trying to think of a name.

Pam Sherman: 29:22

Yeah, and do you have any sort of like background, any college experience? Do you have any sort of course experience in mindset stuff or do you? It's just based on just knowing it real life experience, yeah, is.

Pam Sherman: 29:44

In my personal life I have been through a lot of trauma and tragedy and have had to overcome many, many things, and I often think real life is the best, um is the best learning ground really look, I've seen some psychologists that shouldn't be psychologists, so I'm.

Pam Sherman: 30:03

I know exactly what you mean. There's people that you might have done a lot of studying, but you don't know what you're talking about, about life.

Pam Sherman: 30:09

That's not how life works, so yeah, what it's like a fitness coach who's never had to struggle on their journey, like how can you help your clients unless you've been on the struggle bus?

Caroline Balinska: 30:17

yourself.

Pam Sherman: 30:17

I've traveled a gazillion times myself and and know what it's like. But I mean you don't get to be 57 without going through a lot of heavy hurdles in your life.

Pam Sherman: 30:27

Really no, and look, I've also got another woman that I've known for probably 12 or 13 years and I we just connected again after many years and she's actually got a program about mindful eating and it's really about the mind and so, yeah, I totally understand that. You know, it's so important that not having the right mindset around it it's never going to make it work properly. Um, okay, so based on all that, I just wanted to get an idea of that. I just wanted to be clear on that at the moment and I know that at the moment and that's why I said to you before we started the call, I want to be really strict on this time, because I don't want to go into too much at the moment and we might even finish up earlier than the hour today, which is also fine, because I would rather you just say, okay, let's cut it there and let you walk away and have a think about it. I want to take you through now sort of what I actually have as a plan of what we sort of work by, what works really well right now. I'm going to take you through step-by-step of what each area looks like. It's going to look really overwhelming when I show it to you because it's going to look like a lot, looks like it's going to look really overwhelming. When I show it to you because it's going to look like a lot, I'm going to tell you right up front, before we actually look at it, is that the way I actually work, is that and you don't really know a lot about my business, like my business stuff, because we met through my other podcasts but I've actually got a whole marketing system where it automates a lot of the marketing tools, so things like when you think of MailChimp and Calendly and all of the things that we usually use to create marketing, the back-end admin of our business I've got a tool that does all of those things in one go.

Pam Sherman: 32:11

And then what makes like what I'm actually um, passionate about, and when I came back into working after four years on maternity leave, was that I know that as a woman, and especially as a mom, especially as a woman, that's like trying to have a career is that we don't have enough time to try to do everything. So we need to try to have as much time free, so automating as much as possible, and what I've done with my system is that I've created all the templates already. So what I'm about to show you, while you're going to look at it and go, oh my God, caroline, there is no way I can get all of that done Most of what I'm going to show you I've already got templated out and you'll literally because I'll get you into my system once you're ready to get started on everything and you'll literally just have to plug in your business name and copy and paste certain bits and, like I've already shown you, I've given you prompts already that I really recommend and I'm going to have a lot of those emails. That are most of the emails. You're a little bit different. I know you already enough to know that you're like me, that you're going to still rewrite a lot of these emails yourself because you're going to have your way, that you're like me, that you're going to still rewrite a lot of these emails yourself because you're going to have your way, that you really want to word things, but understand that most of it it's there and you'll be able to read those emails and then go okay, caroline's saying that email three has to have this in it, and then you'll be able to take what I've put in email three and rewrite it for your own clientele, but you're going to have the guideline there.

Pam Sherman: 33:38

So, while you might not want to use I know you personally won't want to use most of it yourself as it is, you can. You'll literally just be able to put your name, like where it says, like a little box where it says name, and you'll just be able to put Pam in that section if you wanted to. But in your case you probably won't, but you can. So don't feel overwhelmed by what I'm going to show you, because most of it is just the template, where you can just bang, bang, bang and literally you'll be able to take this, and if you went to do the whole plan in less than a week, you'd have it all done, ready and set, even you rewriting your own stuff. So wait until I walk you through it and then you'll understand it.

Pam Sherman: 34:15

So I just wanted to warn you that don't get overwhelmed until I show it all to you. Okay, so I'm going to share my screen and I think I want to do this. I've lost you on there, okay, can you see my screen? Yes, that is my prompt that I was going to show you that I'll send to you. Okay, so now, this is what I meant. So don't feel overwhelmed. So this is a guideline. When you know more about what you want to do, I'm going to create this exactly for you, but I just want you to walk through it and have a think about it. I'm going to give you the recording afterwards as well, so you can go through this again and start to think about it.

Pam Sherman: 34:55

So if you look up at the top, in that orange box, it says the aim is to get on a discovery call. So what we want to do is we can do this in different ways With you. It could be a discovery call and I really recommend discovery calls. Discovery calls are great because discovery calls were you doing those before in your business? Yes, yeah. So discovery calls are great because you really get to get one-on-one with people. What we want to do is get it down from a one-hour discovery call down to a 15-minute discovery call. So I think a lot of people get freaked out, like I don't want to be on the phone for an hour to 20 different people to get one conversion. So we want to get it down to a shorter conversion, a shorter time period, and I'm going to show you how we can make that happen.

Pam Sherman: 35:36

We've got other people, like with Bec. We're trying to get hers from a discovery call into getting free trial sessions. We've been working on that and it's actually working really well for her and I'm trying another. I'm doing a few different things with her, but she's an in-person type of boot camp, so that's a little bit different. But if we can get you to either a one-on-one discovery call or into like a discovery session where a few people get on that, that would be even better, because then you can talk to a few people at once. So that's the goal.

Pam Sherman: 36:07

So the first thing that we need to think about is the goal. And why I want you to think about that is because I had a quick talk to you when I first met you about the way you've been running your business. I had a quick talk to you when I first met you about your, the way you've been running your business. You had different packages that were really well priced before, but you said that your highest package you weren't getting as many people in there, or you said even the lower packages. So I think that we have to be a little bit careful that not just you everyone does this, that we get a little bit. We get a little bit distracted by all the different options and then it's sort of like, okay, well, I want to get this. You know, I want to send people these emails, or I want to get people to this video, or I want to get them to this webinar.

Pam Sherman: 36:48

But if we always think the only goal is to get them onto a discovery call, then we can move them through the funnel in the right way. So, for example, if you wanted to do and this is something you're going to have to decide going from a people don't know you into just giving them like a six-week program or a one-year program and charging let's say it's $3,000, for example, if they don't know working with you, then it might be a bit hard. So how can we get them through that? Maybe we have like a free group at the start of that. Or, like you have in your current business, you've got like a. Is it $14 a month? Something around that price. Yeah, yeah, having something like that. So that could be a good way to do it.

Pam Sherman: 37:29

The system I'm going to put you onto, onto my system I actually you can set up a full membership system in there as well. No extra charge. Normally you pay an extra $100 to have a membership program. So my platform actually allows all of the different things and the best part is it's all connected in one. So if someone comes through from an Instagram DM and then their details are in the system that they can go into the membership area, they can go into the email system, they can move around, they can go onto the calendar request you can put into emails. If they filled out a form and filled out, if your question is what's the hardest part about your life at the moment weight loss, marriage problems or children, as an example, you can then send them an email that has in there thanks for your form. You said, and you can put that line in there, that they already filled out. So you can be really specific and make it look like it's a really natural email because it's all linked up in together. So, um, yeah, having the membership area all in one place is a really good idea.

Pam Sherman: 38:37

So I want you to just get really clear on we're trying to get people into a discovery call. Now, if that means that they can't afford to work with you for your let's, we're just going to call it a $3,000 program at the moment. Just know that can change. Let's say they can't afford that $3,000 program, we're going to get rid of them before that point, that you're not going to be wasting your time on a call with them. Okay, so we don't want to waste our time on calls with people that can't afford the $3,000, but we just want to always be thinking $3,000 discovery call to get them into the program. We need to get them on that discovery call, but we're going to weed out the wrong people along the way and there might be that free program that they go into, or there might be that that seven parts $200 that you're selling for $200. It might be that that you give them as a starting point.

Pam Sherman: 39:28

Yeah, there's lots of different things we can do. So discovery call is the only aim of the game. How that happens, you can see in the top line, straight out into the orange. We've got Instagram ads. We've got Instagram. We've got get on other people's podcasts. I'll make it a bit bigger. Sorry, I think I can zoom in.

Caroline Balinska: 39:47

Oh yeah, I still have my glasses on.

Pam Sherman: 39:51

Yes, thank you.

Pam Sherman: 39:54

And then I've got their Pinterest and then I've got live events. When we spoke last time, I spoke to you about doing live events and I think that would be really good for you. I haven't linked that up for this situation because I don't want you to overthink that at the moment. Okay, so I haven't linked that on today yet, but I want you to just have that in mind, that I think that would be really good for you and then that could come into the funnel at a later date. So I think that would be really good for you and then that could come into the funnel at a later date. So I think at the moment, instagram or Pinterest I'd put Instagram there, but Pinterest and Instagram.

Pam Sherman: 40:24

Now, for example, beck my client Beck she does amazingly well with Facebook. She does not so great with Instagram and you expect her to do really well on Instagram. It just doesn't matter how much you push it on Instagram. Facebook is where her market is, so you can be one or the other, or you could be both. I don't want you to get into this. What some people do is I'm going to be on Instagram and that's it and not actually know their demographic. So I put Instagram there, but I think you should test it out. It might be Instagram, it might be Facebook, it might be both. Same with Instagram ads. It might be Instagram, it might be Facebook, but you're going to be somewhere there on social media. The other thing is how many women that you're looking at targeting do you think are corporate women? Do you think LinkedIn could be an audience for you? You?

Pam Sherman: 41:18

I have just started posting more on linkedin.

Pam Sherman: 41:20

Um, yes, yes, absolutely speaking of yes I don't post a lot on, but yes yeah, so instagram might be a really good place for you as well. Um, I'm sorry, linkedin might be a really good place for you as well. Sorry, linkedin might be a really good place for you as well, and I can definitely give you some strategies around that as well that I use. Yeah, so LinkedIn might also be on this list. I don't also want you to get too bogged down in too many things at once, so trying to keep it as simple as possible to begin with, and then you can always add to it Pinterest. Have you been doing much on Pinterest at all? Never been on Pinterest in my life. Okay, pinterest would be a really good place for you as well.

Pam Sherman: 42:06

Pinterest is excellent around fitness and there's so what a lot of people don't realize. I was just talking to a guy yesterday who does baby clothing and he actually thought Pinterest was an Amazon marketplace. He had no idea and once I explained it to him, he was blown away because Pinterest people that use Pinterest actually spend more per person than they do on Instagram or Facebook, so there's a much higher spend there. It's also really good for women and for older women, so Pinterest is a really really good platform for people like you and me and, for example, this client that I was talking to about baby clothes like Pinterest is really a good place for very particular businesses and definitely I think Pinterest would be great for you and there's not a lot. Once you get started on that. You can do ads on there as well. Once you start building up, it's like a um, uh, what do you call it? Like a? What's that word? Uh, the? I can't even think what the word is where it builds up, build up's automatic.

Pam Sherman: 43:17

Yeah, no, but it like builds up and builds up, and once it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, it starts to work on its own. So the way I like to do Pinterest, yeah, but it's more like it grows, Like it can end up growing really, really quickly the way I like to do Pinterest.

Pam Sherman: 43:34

There's our 45 minutes, but we're going to keep going the way I like to do Pinterest. There's our 45 minutes, but we're going to keep going. I just wanted to have that as our, that we know. What I love about Pinterest is that you can run some ads there and then, once you do some ads and it's actually less to run ads on Pinterest you can do some ads there and then you can do some organic stuff and then you can stop doing the ads and then you can just run the organic, so you can build it up like that. So Pinterest stuff, and then you can stop doing the ads and then you can just run the organic, so you can build it up like that. So Pinterest, I think, is a really good place for you. Then the other thing that could be really good for you, I think as well, is getting on other people's podcasts. So that's a really good strategy for you. Um, and then what I've got there in the next line in the darker purple is having your own podcast. So I highly recommend for you.

Pam Sherman: 44:16

There's two ways you could go about this and I want you to think it through. You could either have just a webinar where you could start setting up separate webinars, and I recommend, if you can do live webinars. They're fantastic, but if you do a recorded webinar, they work really well as well. And if every couple of weeks, you do a new webinar, so over a couple of months you can put out three or four different webinars. That's a really good way to go. And then that's something if you want to keep it as simple as possible, you record it once. It's evergreen, and then you just send traffic to that webinar.

Pam Sherman: 44:53

Now, what works even better than a webinar is a podcast. The podcast. The good thing is it's like a webinar, but you end up doing more of them. You're doing them on a weekly basis, but you, once you start them, you have to continue doing it. You need to do a weekly webinar podcast and you can have guests on there. You can have your clients on there. There's it's really about getting the questions answered that your ideal customer will be asking you, and you do that through. You know having clients on. You have experts on. I know you do a lot of guest stuff already.

Pam Sherman: 45:29

So you having your own podcast, I think you do really well at it. I think it's really worth it. But once you start it, you really need to be dedicated to it. And if you were to do a podcast, then I'd recommend just having one webinar that you do and then you can always add more webinars.

Pam Sherman: 45:45

But that would be the ideal situation that I think is having a weekly podcast with one or two webinars set up, and then your podcast you say at the end of every episode or during the episode, and I'll'll teach you like I've got really good strategies about doing a really good podcast, and then you would direct people to your webinar.

Pam Sherman: 46:03

So they're listening to your podcast, go listen to my webinar, and your webinar is sort of like a more um overall, because each podcast episode is separate. And then your webinar is sort of like the main points that you're trying to get across, and then you're directing people to your webinar. But you also direct people to your a simple landing page that just sort of like talks about your program and then from there you can see we move down into an application form and that application form is the, the yellow one here in the middle. The application form is really getting people to book your discovery call and that application form is the form where we weed out the people that can't afford your program. Okay, so that's the top end of your funnel, is there?

Pam Sherman: 46:58

any questions so far. Oh, I saw that you had YouTube on there. Could I, instead of having my own podcast, could I do it on my YouTube channel? That's exactly it.

Pam Sherman: 47:06

So I would do a video podcast and you record it as a video, like I did with. You record it as a video, it goes onto your YouTube channel and then you also upload it as an audio podcast as well, okay. So, yeah, you're recording it as a video, but you do put it up as a podcast as well as a normal podcast, and that goes on to Spotify automatically, it goes on to Apple Podcasts and Android. It goes out everywhere, okay, and the thing is is that video podcasts are really good and I'm doing them as well for that reason, um, but audio podcasts still actually are better at this stage and there's a reason for that.

Pam Sherman: 47:54

So I don't know if you know much yeah, well, I'm walking my dog, I'm in the car. I don't want to sit and listen. I want to listen when I'm out doing other things exactly and there's.

Pam Sherman: 48:04

They've actually proven that people listening to your podcast, when they're just listening, they have this sense that they're sitting next to you in a living room, like there's been all these studies done around it, and they feel like they're talking to a friend. So there's like a different sort of level. So, audio podcast I still believe in doing a video podcast if you can as well. So yeah, in your case, video podcast and an audio is the way to go. Um, any other questions about the stuff, and I don't want to get too bogged down on the details at the moment, because I just want you to sort of understand the overall strategy.

Pam Sherman: 48:39

Yeah, no, that's a lot, but it's good.

Pam Sherman: 48:42

Yeah. So I'll just finish up the last points of it, because that's sort of like the top end of it. You've got over here on the left-hand side, you've got the green boxes. That's just. Rather than getting people into your, getting people to your webinar or getting people to your landing page, the green part's really about just using automated DMs, and in my system we do that as well. The one that everyone knows is using ManyChat, but we've got it built in where we do exactly the same thing as ManyChat, and then what you do and the great thing is ManyChat, it's its own platform and you've got to pay for it, but then you need to then link it up to everything. We do all of that in the same platform and it's all automated.

Pam Sherman: 49:24

So, for example, you put out an Instagram post and you say comment the word happy and I'll send you the seven-part love yourself to health for free. They comment that word. We have it set up in the system. Once the word happy comes through, an automated message goes back to the person. That message says I'd love to send it to you. Give me your email address. They send their email address through and then you send them the link to their email and you send them a link through here and then you can send them some more DMs. You can get their phone number and send them SMSs as well through the system. So that green part is using Instagram and Facebook in that way as an automated system as well, because then you've got them in more places. Sms does amazingly, so if you can get their phone number, it actually has a better success rate than an email at the moment. So if you can get their phone number, then that's fantastic. So that's sort of in that green column. Again, we automate all of that Once it's set up, once you don't touch it again.

Pam Sherman: 50:27

So when we're looking at this, the other parts that you have to think about is these pink parts are the ones that just let you know the emails. Like I said, these are the emails that will be automated. I've got the template for them. You just plug in your information based on what the strategy is. Once it's done, once you don't touch it again, we have the funnel set up for you and it's done. The yellow ones are you creating videos? So what we would recommend is someone fills out the form they want to get on discovery call with you Once they book that discovery call in the calendar.

Pam Sherman: 50:59

They get an email that just says thanks for filling out the form, making sure that they understand what the call will be and then what we do in our system. We have a way of automating it where, based on what they answered in the discovery call, they will then get another email that will look like it's just a really. It'll come out one or two hours later. That comes from you just saying hey, because they answered divorce is their biggest problem or children is their biggest problem. They're going to get one of these videos, the pain point videos. Okay, so you're going to have two or three or four of them, whatever you want, and then they'll get an email based on what they answered in that. So then, before their discovery call, you've already warmed them up. You've now sent them another video and then. So the discovery call now, instead of becoming a one-hour discovery call, becomes a 15-minute discovery call, because a lot of it's been automated along the way.

Pam Sherman: 51:53

Right, that's brilliant.

Pam Sherman: 51:56

And then what's going to happen is, if they don't book the discovery call, they come down here into the they didn't book a call. They get different emails. Again, these are all automated, they're all set up. If they book the discovery call and they didn't attend the call, then they get a set of emails trying to get them back into coming back to the discovery call. If they to the discovery call, if they attend the discovery call, in our system once you click on that they attended the call, you can then tag them, if you wanted to with you can set this up and have a tag saying they're interested and now they get a certain email for the program or they get an automatic invoice sent to them or a link to pay, and then it can be all. So you can just you can have the system set up that it's all automated. We actually have contracts in our system as well. So, like the hello sign I don't know if you know the contracts automated. So we have that built in as well. So you could say that they need to sign a contract and you could have that. You just plug in, you have a template, you just put their you know their email address and then they get a contract automatically and it's all in one. So then when you look up their name in the system, you've got all of the different information. You know what membership program they're in, you know what their contract they've signed, you know what tags they have. You've got their sm SMS that you can send them an SMS. You can send them a DM. So everything's in there. Like the other day, you sent me a DM yesterday saying can't wait to talk to you. It's all in the system.

Pam Sherman: 53:26

So I can see that you've. You know, come through in there. I can see when your calendar booking is due. I can see all of the appointments I've got booked with you. We can have a calendar booked system where we have recurring calendar meetings. So I can say that your call is every Monday at six o'clock and then we can just have it set up. So then it's every week. We can have a payment going through the calendar system as well, so you can take payments straight through the calendar. So we just sort of need to know from you which way does that feel best for you and we can set it up in the system for you. And you can see here in the purple you can have different price points for your program. You might have, like, a six-week program, you might have a 12-week program and you can have different price points for that. You can have an upsell into um something I can't move the screen up we can have upsells as well. So there's a lot there, I know that.

Pam Sherman: 54:18

But I want you to take this recording away and now that you understand this this is why I wanted to leave um our next call until next week that you can sort of now start to think how does this look for you and write down all your questions after today and sort of we get on another call and we take it to the next level, because I think now it's just sort of an overall picture of what you want to do it's fantastic.

Pam Sherman: 54:43

Wow, you're amazing and I know it looks overwhelming, but this is really everything that's pink on. This is really done, already done for you, and the green is also done for you completely. The landing page we actually have the landing page template and then we can like have the designers go through and make some changes to make it look more like your website. We can have the webinar. I actually have a template for a webinar for you as well. So then you just fill in the information. You sort of get the blocks of. This is what information should be on these pages. The videos the pain point videos we actually have templates for those as well. We've got the survey already put together for you.

Pam Sherman: 55:29

All the calendar stuff is already set up in the system, so you just like say, okay, I want my calendar to be open from 9am till 2pm only, and you just change the timing of your calendar. So, while this looks like a lot, a lot of it is already programmed into the system for you, which you don't get anywhere else, like if you sign up with MailChimp or an email system. You've got to then write your own emails and then which email do I put in there? Where do I put the email? What day. Do I do the email? What do I have to think about? How do I tag that email? But we set all of that up and we show you this email should have these tags attached to it. So we've got all of that and then we've got a two day wait between, or we can send the email out between 8am and 6pm only. So then people don't. If they sign up at three o'clock in the morning, they're not getting an email from you at three o'clock in the morning, 24 hours later.

Pam Sherman: 56:14

So we can have all of that in the system.

Pam Sherman: 56:17

Amazing Truly.

Pam Sherman: 56:20

So you just need to come up with the name. You just need to come up with your program. You just need to come up with a couple of the details and the rest of it will be there for you. And you doing your own videos is going to be super easy for you because you know how to do it. You creating your own podcast will be easy. You recording your webinar will be easy. I'll just give you all the templated stuff that you need to put into it and you take it from there. Sounds great. Do you have any other questions at the moment? No, no, I have homework to do. I'm good. Yeah, okay, we're going to leave it there because I know it's a lot, but I'm going to give you this recording Once we get off. It needs to process and I'll send it straight through to you. I'll send you that prompt as well.

Pam Sherman: 57:04

We're meeting again on Monday, which is not that far away, and normally with my clients. I'll like make give them a week between to get things organized. I do understand your personality, so I do think like you could get there by Monday, but I also know that there is a lot to do, so I'm not going to be disappointed in you. If you say, hey, carolyn, I need a little bit more time, but let's try to go for Monday, okay, and? But very happy as well to extend that time for you.

Pam Sherman: 57:37

And if you've got any questions that you think that you cannot wait until our next call because you can't move forward, send me an email, send me a message and let me know and I'll answer them for you by message. If there's something that I feel like I can't reply in a message, I'll create a quick video for you and send you a little video, a loom video, with the information as well. And if there's something that I think, look, let's wait for the actual call, I'll let you know that as well, but I want you to be able to move forward. So feel free to message me at any time and ask me questions.

Pam Sherman: 58:10

Yeah, you got a lot to do yes. But I think you'll get there. I know I will Thank you so much.

Pam Sherman: 58:19

You're welcome. Any other questions before I stop the recording? No, that's it. No, okay, I'm going to stop the share screen. I'm going to stop the recording.